Sarah Crue (laoran) wrote in atheists,
Sarah Crue
laoran
atheists

George Bush does not care about black people..and his daddy hates atheists

so i was reading about atheism...and somehow through a series of much wandering and clicking, i wasndered onto this....

"When George Bush was campaigning for the presidency, as incumbent vice-president, one of his stops was in Chicago, Illinois, on August 27, 1987. At O'Hare Airport he held a formal outdoor news conference. There Robert I. Sherman, a reporter for the American Atheist news journal, fully accredited by the state of Illinois and by invitation a participating member of the press corps covering the national candidates, had the following exchange with then-Vice-President Bush.

Sherman: What will you do to win the votes of the Americans who are atheists?

Bush: I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me.

Sherman: Surely you recognize the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?

Bush: No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God.

Sherman (somewhat taken aback): Do you support as a sound constitutional principle the separation of state and church?

Bush: Yes, I support the separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists."

I was so angry...our country, a country built from people who faced religious persecution in their own countries, who chose to leave their lives because they were tereated unfairly because of what they believed, elected this man into office. Even though he considers anyone who does not believe in god to be unpatriotic and therefore not worthy to be a citizen of the country, we still elected him...we have the separation of church and state to prevent the government from creating a national religion, but somehow it is perfectly ok for our former president to discriminate against those who don't believe in a god...in his eyes, only theists are worthy of being citizens of our country...that blows my mind..i realize that this conversation took place in 1987, so i was barely a year and a half old, but would any one care to share their views on this?
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Gott Mit Uns!
Join the the Crusades!

Pathetic.
[just shakes head and walks away]
what's pathetic exactly?
That the seperation of church and state and the freedom from religion have seemed to just disappear into the pointless spin of politics.
ok, just curious...wasn't sure what part you were referring to, sorry :)
Yeah, that infurited me too. I read about it a few years ago.

What a lot of people, especially Christian zealots, don't realize is that the founders of this country weren't all Christians. Some were, sure. But quite a few were not. Several identified as deists, meaning that a god character started everything but did not interfere.
found this interesting in regards to the topic...
http://www.earlyamerica.com/review/summer97/secular.html

specifically the part about John Adams:

In his, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" [1787-1788], John Adams wrote:


"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses.

". . . Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind."
the above, i believe, is referring to our leaders not being made leaders by any sort of divine right. If that is correct and our country was acknowledged even in the beginning as being built without help of a god, by the hands of men, how can those of us who believe exactly that, be the ones who are seen as unpatriotic or as not worthy to be citizens? I don't know, perhaps i'm misconstruing things, but it seems so...incredibly off the way things have turned out...such a contradiction to the freedom our country is supposed to stand for
For all my complaints about modern America, I really like some of the founding fathers. Though they did have flaws... like slaves...
this is true, but one must remember that they did not start the slave trade...however they are responsible for turning the slaves from a form of serventry where they were at least seen as humans in other countries to being merely chattel in our country. i'm not saying they're flawless, i'm just saying, if those were the ideals the country was built on, atheists should at least be seen as equal to anyone else in the country...not specifically frowned on and considered lower than the rest by the elected leader of the country...
Oh, absolutely.
I really wish I remembered all this information...
but recently, along the bible belt, there was a vote to proclaim, as fact, that this nation was found by Christian men under Christian morals. That was all they wanted, that that should be fact.
It was denied, somewhere around 60% against. Alot of the christians in this area said it didn't matter, but that they could see it being a step in someone forcing their religion on others. Many of them were intelligent enough to realize that while the founders may have been christian, they founded the nation under the premise of freedom.
Yeah, I really don't get that. The nation wasn't founded by all Christians, but let's pretend for a second that it was--what difference would that make? They were almost all white, rich, male, slave owners too, but no one is trying to bring back the plantations. It just seems like such a false argument to say that because some folks who started this thing out subscribed to a religion that the nation is founded on that premise. Religion wasn't a part of it.
It is a fallacy argument, that is for sure. Many were christians, and had christian morals but they followed the morals that all religions contain: "Do unto others as you'd have done upon yourself." Something almost all religion has. They forget that part, and just go with the rest.

But, your last sentence is wrong =/. Religion was a major part of our nation's founding, but much closer to running away from church controlled parliaments then trying to enstate their own.
Religion was a big part of why the Puritans came here, you're right about that. But the nation was founded long after that, and religion was not a big part of that. There is a difference between the folks who first came here and the later folks who turned it into a soveriegn nation